Seminars and Rank

It seems I keep coming back to this topic...

Last month I attended the Wilder Seminar. It was great. By now, in our region, it seems like we get mostly the same 10 to 15 people at the seminars, so to me it seems almost like a family by this point. Which is really cool! It's a much better experience then when I attended my first seminar almost two years ago as a white belt, which I posted about previously. (You can that blog post if you are interested)  I didn't mention in my review that there was a white belt there! He was new! I remember when he showed up thinking "Hey! Cool! Another white belt! Welcome to the family of those of us who know!" I made sure to go introduce myself. I was really just excited and thought it was great to see someone who is just starting their martial arts journey get to start it out on the right foot without having to wade through all the bull shit (excuse my language) that is out there.

After the seminar was over there was a discussion about seminars and rank. It was mentioned that perhaps lower ranking belts shouldn't be allowed to attend seminars, because the instructor isn't able to cover more advanced material with non-black belts present.

I wasn't really sure how I felt about this. I chewed on it for a while. Nick and I discussed it at length on our drive home in which I discovered I was actually kind of upset about the remark. I decided I am in disagreement with this opinion, and here is why:

The Black Belt ranking is completely arbitrary. I say this because there are some schools who will give you a black belt in two years and some schools in which it takes up to ten years to earn a black belt. Students may be going to classes the same amount of days a week and same amount of time in each school, but the time it takes to get to black belt is still different. Different schools and different instructors have different criteria for ranking and demand different levels of competency to progress. So... you  might have someone walk in who is a black belt who has been doing martial arts for two or three years. And you may have someone show up who is a green belt (or whatever mid rank color your system uses) who has been doing martial arts for five to seven years. There is no way you can ask the student who has been practicing for seven years to sit out while someone who has only been practicing for two years can participate because they are a black belt and it is therefore assumed that they have more knowledge, control, experience, and are more able to handle the difficult or advanced material.

In addition these attendees usually come from all across the style spectrum. At these seminars we have people from different two schools of Shotokan Karate, people from Goju Ryu Karate, people from Aikijutsu, people from TaeKwonDo backgrounds, and people with Judo backgrounds; sometimes people with backgrounds in more than one of the above. Someone from TaeKwonDo isn't going to know the same kata as someone from an Aikijutsu background, who isn't going to know any of the kata from a karate background. Even though the line between all martial arts can be blurred to the point of indistinction, not everyone is walking into the seminar with the same knowledge, EVEN if they are ALL black belts.

Now, I'll be fair and play the devil's advocate here. When I helped Nick design his rank sheets we arranged the requirements in such a way that the more dangerous and more difficult techniques were required and primarily taught to the upper ranking students. I can understand that it would be frustrating to have a white belt present and to have to try to cover the basics or things that they haven't yet learned in order to explain more in depth material, or being hesitant to work with them on more advanced techniques because you don't want them to hurt you. I DO understand and acknowledge those concerns.

However, who is to say a black belt FOR CERTAIN understands everything they are assumed to know? Maybe it's even more dangerous to NOT have any lower ranking belts present, because it is just assumed everyone in the room will know what is going on and no one wants to ask for clarification or help fear of looking stupid? I still have a tendency, because I feel that the black belt rank is arbitrary, to try to stick pretty close to working with Nick at seminars because there is a part of me that still doesn't totally trust the other black belts in the room not to hurt me either. Maybe that's pretty snide of me, but you have no way of knowing anything for certain when working with people you only see once or twice a year at a seminar. No offense seminar peoples, I love you all, but I still have trouble over coming my hang ups.

What to do, what to do? I feel that, If you really want to work on or cover techniques that are so advanced that any rank lower than a black belt should not be working on it, and you don't want to bother with explaining basics, or dealing with people who haven't studied the same style as you, then you need make a seminar that is SPECIFICALLY designed for people who practice Style X who have obtained at least rank Z or studied for Y number of years. It is not open to the general public. I'm perfectly OK with this. Awesome! More power to you! I don't really think it's being elitist even. It's just an advanced level seminar for people who practice a specific style. Cool. I fully acknowledge I am not qualified to attend your seminar and do not feel discriminated against in the slightest. (Although it might end of fostering an elitist attitude if people aren't careful, and I'm sure someone out there would be petty enough to throw a fit about not being allowed into a seminar they are not qualified to attend, but oh well.)

I do think that the Wilder and the the Abernethy type seminars are more of a general education type of seminar. Here is some REALLY cool stuff you can do with Martial Arts, we want you to take it home and incorporate it into your school and your style however you see fit. I think it's GREAT to have lower ranking students at these seminars because even if they can't utilize or haven't learned everything yet, they are getting some of the pieces to the puzzle that they can think about and plug in as they progress in their training. They are there because they are interested and they want to learn. Cool!

Let's foster that and encourage them. Try to remember what it felt like to be that rank. Did the upper belts you knew look down their nose at you? Could you pick up on the fact that they were irritated that you were there watching and learning? Were they mad that you asked questions because you couldn't understand something? Or were they excited to help you on your journey? Did they welcome questions? Did they get excited when they showed you something knew? Did they celebrate with you when you understood or grasped something for the first time or had a 'light-bulb moment'? Even if you had the former type of instructors or sempai, wouldn't you have rather had the latter?

Just some food for thought.

Seminar Attitude

This is NOT the review of the Wilder Seminar. If you are looking for the review of the Wilder seminar, it can be found here.

**As a forewarning, this blog might upset some people, probably black belts. I honestly sincerely don't mean any disrespect by it, but I want to preface the blog with this disclaimer: I'm sorry if this upsets you and I do not hold this opinion to be universally true about all black belts.**

I recently attending a seminar. It was awesome. It was the third seminar I have been to, and the second martial arts focused seminar. (First was a Mr. Rory Miller seminar on violence, second was an Iain Abernethy seminar on Bunkai and Kata, and the most recent was a Kris Wilder seminar on power generation and application of this principle with some of the kata movements)

I did not get this vibe from the Miller seminar, probably because some of the first words out of Miller's mouth were "This is not about Martial Arts, this is about violence." and no one showed up in uniform.

However, I have to say something I experienced at both the Abernethy and the Wilder seminar has left me feeling rather perplexed. I felt it quite a bit more at the Abernethy seminar then the Wilder seminar, but it was still there.

Generally speaking I am usually one of the youngest and lowest ranking people there, but not usually via the same person. There are younger attendees who hold black belts, and older attendees who hold green and brown belts. There have been one or two other people younger then myself and maybe 3 to 5 people who are not black belts at these seminars. Overall, there are not a lot of us 'newbies' at these seminars. It's probably 90% Black Belts. I am not sure if the other lower ranking students feel the same way I do, but I usually feel a distinct 'mood' emanating from some of the black belts who attended the last two seminars I went to. Both seminars, walking into the room first thing on the first day, I feel a general air of... I want to be politically correct, because I do not want to hurt feelings or step on toes, that's honestly not the purpose of this post, but to be blunt I feel like a lot of people are looking down their nose at each other.

I have never felt this feeling or attitude from any of the hosts or presenters of the seminars that I have attended, and I certainly don't get this vibe from all the participants either. This is not a blanket statement. However, this feeling does come and go throughout the seminar, and I feel like most everyone is on guard and is always slightly on the defensive. I see a lot of dour expressions.

(There was a brief discussion following the seminar about this, and the comment was made "I don't think those kind of people come to these seminars, I think everyone here wants to learn." I'm not sure I entirely agree with that. Perhaps I am just imagining it though? I agree that close minded ignorant martial artists will more then likely not sign up for these types of seminars, and I do think that everyone there wants to learn, but I just don't get the feeling like the attitude is all bubbles and roses and sunshine. And yes, I am aware that Martial Arts is a serious subject, but like Miller has stated, you learn things better if you have fun with it.)

I'm not sure where this sense of standoffish-ness comes from, but I don't like it. I think it would be cool if all the attendees left their belt at the door and put on a white belt for the duration of the seminar. I think it would be neat if everyone would let go of their pretenses and insecurities and just have a good time and enjoy themselves. Introduce yourself to people, make a point to go talk to someone you don't know, ask them about their style, work with different partners and be excited about it for godssake! We get this chance to work some of the heavy hitters in the industry and I think we should make the most of it, not spend time sizing each other up and worrying about if the person next to you knows more then you.

Are you worried that your partner is going to hurt you? Are you worried about looking weak? Do you feel like you have to uphold your black belt macho attitude? I don't get it! Please help me understand why I saw almost no laughing or excitement. If you do feel this way, maybe other people feel this way too. (I did see SOME, especially when people are doing the drills, but I also saw a lot of eyeing up and turned backs during breaks or before or after the seminars.)

Whatever you're holding on to, let it go!

This little orange belt would be pretty darn excited if everyone came with an empty cup, an open mind, and a willingness to work with others, to listen, and to drop the pretenses, to go as slow or as fast as your partner is comfortable, to hit as hard or as soft as your partner is comfortable with, to be willing to scale back, to not be embarrassed to ask your partner to scale back if that's what you want.

We are all there to learn and to have fun. We all come from different backgrounds but we are united by our passion for the martial arts. No one is out to get you, no one is out to make you look stupid or feel like a fool in front of everyone, no one cares if you don't know something specific that the person next to you might know; you may know something they don't! No one cares what color your belt is, or how many stripes are on your belt or how long you have been training. We are all equals there to learn, share, practice, and enjoy.

I know I just said that no one cares what color your belt is, but perhaps because of this general vibe it can be very intimidating for a low ranking student to walk into a room full of black belts. (For those of us who don't have a black belt, it can best be described as the black belt complex. You know it shouldn't matter, but you can't help but fixate on it to some degree till you have it) I just didn't feel overly welcome till the host and presenter showed up, I didn't see enthusiasm or excitement, I saw sideways glances and people sticking to clicks/schools.

I will be the first to admit, I am just as guilty of this myself. I tend to mainly work with Sensei Nick during these seminars. Partly because I am shy, partly because I have a very strong sense of trust with Sensei Nick and it can be unnerving for anyone to work with a stranger, and partly because I didn't feel like most (not all, but some) of the other attendees wanted to work with an orange belt. It's very difficult sometimes for us newbies to come out of our shell and approach you 'towering black belts' who have been doing this for 10, 20, 30 years or more. Does anyone else feel this way?

Last night in class, we talked about how cool the seminar was and are encouraging out students to attend the Brent Yamamoto seminar. We had a student, a white belt, say he didn't want to go because he was afraid he would be in the way, or he wouldn't be able to keep up with the material. Sensei Nick and I tried to encourage him, but I got the feeling that that is why a lot of lower ranking students don't attend these things. If he were to attend, I couldn't honestly guarantee that he wouldn't pick up on some of the attendees not wanting to work with him because they, too, felt he would be in their way, etc.


It can be really scary attending a seminar for the first or second time, especially as a lower ranking student. We feel like mice among giants! You're the role models, you're the ones we all look up to for guidance and acceptance. We need your welcoming attitude and encouragement, not your aloof detachment. In our minds you embody the black belts we want to become. Think about that for a minute... We're watching your every move to see how a real black belt behaves. If you snub other schools, your students will do the same. If you go out of your way to talk to other people, to share information, to be pleasant etc, your students will follow your lead, especially when you encourage that type of behavior.  Do you want your students to be like those of Cobra Kai or those of Mr. Miyagi?

Sensei Nick and I discussed this on the way home, and he said that honestly the two seminars that we have attended together were pretty good. He's been to seminars that were almost downright hostile. Has anyone else had any type of experience like this? What have you done to get past it?

There were some suggestions like forcing people to work with different partners on the first day, but then letting people work with people from their own school on the second day so they can collaborate and be able to take the material back to their own schools better. Miller did this at his seminar and it seemed to work pretty well. It was only a one day seminar that I attended but by the end of the day it wasn't a big deal/awkward to go introduce yourself to someone and change partners every time.

I've decided that the next seminar I go to I am going to make a point to try to get there early and talk to as many people as I can before the seminar starts and during the breaks. To introduce myself and find out who they are and where they come from and what they study. This is going to be a huge challenge as I am actually pretty shy when I have to face people in person. In fact, I've gotten so nervous I've thrown up before! However, this is really important to me, so I want to push myself outside my comfort zone. We grow through challenge and adversity, not by staying in our safety zone.

So if I see you at the next seminar, you can bet I'm going to try to come over and talk to you. And if I suddenly dash off while we are talking, please don't be offended, I might be throwing up in the bathroom because I am so nervous, but by golly I'm gonna make the effort!

Respect vs. Rank

I read Felicia's post on respect a few weeks ago (R-E-S-P-E-C-T). It was good, I thought about whether we had problems in our dojo and I really didn't feel like it was an issue beyond some of the kids I have seen. I haven't really seen this problem in adults, we all have fun and respect each other. Well, that is, until last night.

Any dojo you go to will have different rules and traditions. When I studied under Sensei Nick Guinn, we just came into the dojo, put on our belts, and hung out till class started. Once class started, things were serious and formal. We bowed in very formally, going down with the right knee first, then the left, right hand on the floor, then the left, then you bowed your forehead to the floor, and when you say up you brought your right hand back to your lap, then your left, stood with your right leg first, then your left. There was a specific reason for the order you did everything in, etc. I don't know if he still does things that way now, but I really liked the formality of it. It definitely got you focused for class.

At my current dojo, they ask that you kneel down when putting on or taking off your belt, and if a black belt of any degree is putting on their belt that you also kneel down out of respect. We didn't do this at my old dojo, but I make every effort to do it here, because that is their tradition. I don't like the way we bow in at my new school as much. It feels very casual compared to what I am used to. (If you bow from the waist you always bow lower than your superiors, at least according to the Japanese culture, etc etc) But, I do it their way because that is their tradition at this dojo. 

What I am getting around to saying is that last night, after class, it was late, there were only 2 students left in the dojo, a green belt and a black belt, they were talking in the lobby and the instructor and instructor in training had just stepped back into the office to have a meeting. I bowed before I left the dojo floor, and took my belt off in the lobby. I forgot to kneel down.

The green belt made a point to tell me that I hadn't done so and that I was disrespectful. (As a side note, anyone who knows me knows that I take martial arts VERY seriously and I do my best to respectful to students and teachers a like, and to follow tradition when applicable.) She tried to flick me, but I flinched away and gave her a look that said, 'Don't touch me'. She moved in closer and flicked me hard on the arm. So, I gently swung my arm out and tapped her with my belt on the leg in response. She then proceeded to try to kick me. I blocked, and remained on the defensive while she kicked and punched at me. I did not attack her back. At one point she was able to grab the back of me neck, as she had backed me up into one of the dojo's display cases, and bend me over. At that point the black belt stepped in and said something and broke up the fight.

The green belt then said something along the lines of she couldn't believe how disrespectful I was, starting a fight with a green belt. 

Excuse me, but you, miss green belt, are NOT my instructor, it is not your place to scold me or punish me for not following dojo etiquette. And in addition, escalating the situation from flicking and tapping to full on kicking and punching is not ok. What I said was "I think you're the one who started it." I gathered my things and I left the dojo. 

What this brings me down to is this: Who's responsibility is to reprimand students? And, are underclassmen required to show respect to disrespectful upperclassmen?

My opinion: 

Upperclassmen are there to assist and to guide their lower classmen. I feel that punishment and rule enforcement should be left up to the instructor. Granted the instructor was not present at the time, but a simple, "Next time you should kneel when you take your belt off." without the flicking would have easily sufficed. Upperclassmen should be there to set an example for the lower classmen. I do not mind them gently reminding students of etiquette or tradition, but it is not their responsibility to enforce the law.

Respect is earned, not given. Obviously, common courtesy dictates that we should be polite and respectful to everyone as often as possible. However, if someone is blatantly rude to you, or disrespectful, are you required to continue to be respectful to them, especially when they outrank you? My stance, no. (Nick has a post that somewhat touches on this topic as well. You can find it here) I'm not sure I really believe killing people with kindness is always the right approach. I had one instructor at my current dojo tell me (when I was a white belt having issues with a yellow belt in class who just wanted to talk instead of practice) that I am only required to be respectful as far as the dojo rules go, which means I kneel down when a black belt is putting on or taking off their belt, and I am not allowed to teach anyone anything unless asked to do so by the instructor. That was it. Obviously I don't want to be a complete ass-hole to them and curse them out or go out of my way to try to hurt them during training or something equally mean like that, but I am not necessarily required to be friendly and respectful to them either.  

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not encouraging people to start smart mouthing each other and being rude, but I am also not going to allow myself to get walked on either. It can sometimes seem like a difficult line to walk, but you should not allow anyone to use their position to bully you around in any sort of situation. Ever. If you do stand up for yourself, people will possible accuse you of being a bitch, or having a bad attitude. I have had this happen. Which is why its important to stand up for yourself with tact and grace instead of sinking to their level and being rude in response, but be firm. Do not give in. 

Upperclassmen have a responsibility to guide and protect lower ranking students, not bully or punish. (However, as always, I'm sure there are some exceptions to this opinion. Sometimes people just need to be put in their place by a fellow classmate and not the instructor, however these situations are probably pretty few and far between.) Upperclassmen should be setting an example by being polite and respectful to both their superiors and their lower classmen. 

Lowerclassmen should be respectful to their upperclassmen, they should be attentive to feedback, but they should not have to tolerate bullying or disrespect just because the color of their belt is different. (or the same). 

I'm sure what happened with me last night could have been handled in a more tactful way, but sometimes things happen very fast and we don't think about it until after the situation is over.

Has anyone had a similar situation? How do you stand up for yourself without being overtly rude? When these sorts of situations happen, should you take them to the instructor or deal with them yourself? I'm curious to see how other people have dealt with it in the past and what other perspectives people have on the issue of respect versus rank. Please share with me! There is always a better way to deal with something, and I am always looking for ideas, things to think about, and things to help me out as I make my way through the ranks and eventually with when I become an instructor and need to guide and mentor my own students.  

Thanks for listening. Looking forward to your comments. 

~Samurai Girl Sahara